Meeting a judge is scary, right? For someone who doesn't practice law, I may have been a bit nervous before the interview. However, upon being led to Judge Vernon Daniels’ office, I came upon a scene of him playing with his grandson. Cartoons were being played on a TV, and stuffed animals took up much of the space of his desk, and he rose to greet me. Much of my trepidation melted away, for the first thing I saw of him was kindness.

In the initial ice-breaker questions, it was to be learned first that Judge Vernon Daniels had been a judge for over twenty-four years. He received the Laurie Smith Camp Integrity In-Service Award, one given out to those who have improved access to justice, advancing innovation in the legal profession, providing pro bono service, advancing diversity and inclusion, and the greatest of them all: for mentoring others.

Readying a pen, I nodded his way, “If you could have any other profession, would you still choose to be a judge?”

The judge paused,

“I don’t know. I’ve been an incredibly lucky person. If I would have been good in math, I would have made something of myself." His humility in his profession was made clear when, later, I asked him what drives him to wake:

“I love to work. I truly found my calling."

And, when asked about being a judge:

“I don’t tell anyone. I was hesitant to wear my robes consistently in hearings.”

“For the judge that follows you some day, what advice would you give him?”

The next question was like a bell, sounding out his feelings as he spoke with some force,

“You have to have a strong work ethic - you cannot treat it as a part-time job. You are setting an example. (You must) separate personal feelings from professional responsibilities. If unable, one leaves either the job or friends.”

It was easy to see that he had mastered just what he spoke about. The firm, resolute answers were made more potent by the kindness I saw him show his grandson; juxtaposed again by the plethora of books around us in his office and the stuffed animals across his desk.

“What would you like lawyers to know?” I posed then, trying to draw banter.

“As a practicing attorney, I thought decision-making was easy and should be done overnight. A judge is looking globally, looking at both sides.”

“And what would you like the layman to know about the law?”

I did not expect my question to draw out more force from the judge, but it did.

“The law either means something or it doesn't, period. The work here is serious, the court should not – and does not operate like other branches of government. Folks could always look to courts; the Integrity of the court is what gives respect to the institution and the law. When a court works objectively and independently, it has the ability to serve everyone. Some folks expect decisions the minute it is possible, when really we should slow down. Human relationships are not that mechanical.”

His words struck heavy, and perhaps were framed heavier by the swirling current events, but our banter took us then away to a more human and personal space. Biographies were a favorite of his to read, and he had plenty of law-related jokes. Some we cackled over, and he swore me to secrecy, and a few he gave earnestly for my current quest of presenting the best law jokes: “A coroner is on the stand, and counsel asks: “Was the person dead when you did the autopsy? Is there a possibility that the person is alive now?”

“Yeah," The coroner admits, "that person is practicing law right now.”